This in my opinion is EXACTLY what ACS's ABE investors have in store for them. This article provides some circumstantial proof that Anshe Chung has no idea what the hell she is doing in EU and thinks that EU is just like second life. All she did was steal her idea from this guy and modify it a bit. when is she going to learn she bought a pawnshop not a bank?


http://www.theage.com.au/news/web/jitter...81488.html

Seriously, when are you going to do at least a little background reading when you post ridiculous comparisons like this?

If I have to quote Anshe Chung loosely from what I once read her say, I believe she said something along the lines: "I don't thrust Ginko Financial for a dime and always withdraw any payments people make to me using Ginko Financial as soon as possible".

My personal opinion remains that Ginko Financial was nothing more than a Ponzi Scheme. Promising interests of 0.15% a day / 72% a year, I don't think it could be anything else, especially since it occasionally claimed to be making part of these profits by investing in RL and usually rejected to comment on how it is able to earn these interest rates. The way Ginko Financial was offered an easy out right now, is just plain ridiculous IMO. The guy running Ginko Financial is probably walking out with a few $100.000's in his pockets if you ask me.

Nevertheless, I don't see the similiarity between a SL bank that offers 72% yearly interest and which fails to pay out money once people start withdrawing (since it is very likely that it was a Ponzi Scheme), versus a EU bank that makes no promises on its profits whatsoever and certainly does not pay out unbelievable interest rates without explaining how it is supposed to be so profitable at all.

There is no "circumstancial proof" in that article at all and your post only provides factual evidence that you seem to be able to quote about anything ending up with the conclusion that Anshe Chung is evil, even when the quoted part isn't related to Anshe Chung in any way, shape or form. :roll:

Duke Freedom Wrote:Nevertheless, I don't see the similiarity between a SL bank that offers 72% yearly interest and which fails to pay out money once people start withdrawing (since it is very likely that it was a Ponzi Scheme), versus a EU bank that makes no promises on its profits whatsoever and certainly does not pay out unbelievable interest rates without explaining how it is supposed to be so profitable at all.

I see lots of similarities. you pointed only differences. First of all, if there were no promise of profit who would put his money in Anshe's bank? I bet that ppl have better ideas what to do with their money than virtual charity.

Other similarity is lack of information. There is too many secrets in both banks. As long as situation won't clarify and Anshe's investors won't get any income you cant say that in this case Anshe's bank is better than this one. You said that this guy is walking out with $ in his pockets. ATM all $ are in hands of Anshe so it is up to her what to do with those $. She can walk away with cash too. In this case only time can show who is right.

If I'm wrong please try to prove me. I'd like believe that Anshe's bank is trustworthy but atm I can't.

VanBuren Wrote:I see lots of similarities. you pointed only differences.

Ginko Financial was a SL high daily interest bank that went bankrupt. ABE is an EU bank (pawnshop, if you want), in which people can buy stocks to speculate partly on the profitability of the EU bank (at least, that is what it is supposed to be, lack of information, as you point out, does remain an issue).

I find it somewhat ironic how you guys first discuss in another topic how SL and EU are totally different games, while you are now comparing a SL bank to investing in ABE, which is an EU bank, and while it is pretty much completely unrelated.

VanBuren Wrote:First of all, if there were no promise of profit who would put his money in Anshe's bank? I bet that ppl have better ideas what to do with their money than virtual charity.

There's a huge difference between stating that something is profitable versus promising concrete profit results (of 72% / year!).

VanBuren Wrote:Other similarity is lack of information.

Ok I agree. She definitely should have thought it all through better before actually putting it live as well, it certainly does no good for the professioniality that she should be having to keep up (i.e. her good name in SL) either.

VanBuren Wrote:ATM all $ are in hands of Anshe so it is up to her what to do with those $. She can walk away with cash too. In this case only time can show who is right.

I still believe the money that this is about is peanuts for her and so I consider it rather surprising if she decided to just rake in some cash, throwing away her good name in SL on just that. Perhaps I'm naive or missing something on this point, but I wouldn't understand why someone like her would do that.

VanBuren Wrote:If I'm wrong please try to prove me. I'd like believe that Anshe's bank is trustworthy but atm I can't.

I can't "prove" that she is trustworthy, just as much as Kaiser can't "prove" she is not. I can only provide arguemention for why I don't expect it to be a scam and why I consider it worth a gamble to invest a little into it. Yet on the other side, Kaiser continues to claim that he IS right and that ABE IS a scam.

Duke Freedom Wrote:I find it somewhat ironic how you guys first discuss in another topic how SL and EU are totally different games, while you are now comparing a SL bank to investing in ABE, which is an EU bank, and while it is pretty much completely unrelated.

Both games are based on RL economics and both, even though so different, are somehow revolutionary games. So if we are talking about Real Cash Economy things work similar (NOT the same) in both games.

Duke Freedom Wrote:

VanBuren Wrote:First of all, if there were no promise of profit who would put his money in Anshe's bank? I bet that ppl have better ideas what to do with their money than virtual charity.

There's a huge difference between stating that something is profitable versus promising concrete profit results (of 72% / year!).

Point for you. There is huge difference but profit is still profit. Time will show if there will be any profit.

Duke Freedom Wrote:

VanBuren Wrote:ATM all $ are in hands of Anshe so it is up to her what to do with those $. She can walk away with cash too. In this case only time can show who is right.

I still believe the money that this is about is peanuts for her and so I consider it rather surprising if she decided to just rake in some cash, throwing away her good name in SL on just that. Perhaps I'm naive or missing something on this point, but I wouldn't understand why someone like her would do that.

Imagine theoretical situation. Anshe decides to withdraw from SL (why? I don't know, maybe she needs $ for real life business). Will she leave 'peanuts' in EU working? Maybe yes but she can withdraw from EU as well.

And you realized me another thing. If she'd need quickly some $ for her SL business she might withdraw from EU. You mentioned that SL thing is bigger than EU bank atm so she would be likely to sacrifice EU business in order to save SL one.

Duke Freedom Wrote:I can't "prove" that she is trustworthy, just as much as Kaiser can't "prove" she is not. I can only provide arguemention for why I don't expect it to be a scam and why I consider it worth a gamble to invest a little into it. Yet on the other side, Kaiser continues to claim that he IS right and that ABE IS a scam.

And this is what is called discussion. As long as we use fair argumentation (without ad persona arguments) this discussion may be useful for everyone. Anti-Anshe ppl may learn why you think she isn't bad and pro-Anshe ppl may learn why she can't be trusted in 100%. If only Anshe would like to read she could learn how to avoid some troublesome issues and how to gain trust.

VanBuren Wrote:both games are based on RL economics and both, even though so different, are somehow revolutionary games. So if we are talking about Real Cash Economy things work similar (NOT the same) in both games.

ABE / DSE and Ginko Financial are two totally different concepts though.

VanBuren Wrote:Imagine theoretical situation. Anshe decides to withdraw from SL (why? I don't know, maybe she needs $ for real life business).

Anshe has a RL business which is Anshe Chung Studios, her company that develops and sells SL land to costumers. I'm fairly sure her business is going just fine - especially with how fast SL is expanding - and so I wouldn't understand why she would abandon all that.

VanBuren Wrote:Will she leave 'peanuts' in EU working? Maybe yes but she can withdraw from EU as well.

Well, either way, she can't sell her banking license, right?

VanBuren Wrote:And this is what is called discussion. As long as we use fair argumentation (without ad persona arguments) this discussion may be useful for everyone. Anti-Anshe ppl may learn why you think she isn't bad and pro-Anshe ppl may learn why she can't be trusted in 100%. If only Anshe would like to read she could learn how to avoid some troublesome issues and how to gain trust.

Oh yes, discussion is useful, otherwise I wouldn't have any reason to post here. I invested quite a bit into it and so continously reminding one selves of the various risks involved is not a bad idea - in the end of the day trust plays a big role, and trust is certainly not 100% reliable. For useful discussion to take place people should be open-minded and not believe completely in their own right - when they got no solid nor strong proof - though.

One part that I find somewhat interesting about her Dreamland Stock Exchange (DSE) thingy is that she still doesn't link to it on her main pages, which can mean one of two things:

1) She realizes her DSE thingy wasn't thought out very well and therefore doesn't want to "officially" link herself to that business yet(!) and she's currently in the process of bringing up the professionality of it all. It is quite likely that this is the case if you ask me, since she recently moved the DSE to a more "official" url: http://dse.anshechung.com and also changed the appearance to be more professional / no longer in beta. I would expect her to add a link to the DSE on http://www.anshechung.com soon.

2) For some reason she does intent or expect ABE to become a fiasco and so she doesn't want to "officially" link her name to it all / bring all the publicity to it, in case it all turns out wrong.

By the way, to be honest I haven't been following the inworld developments of the banking stuff in EU itself - any progress / news on that?

Duke Freedom Wrote:Well, either way, she can't sell her banking license, right?

I do not know if she can sell her banking license but probably yes, just like it was with malls.

Duke Freedom Wrote:Anshe has a RL business which is Anshe Chung Studios, her company that develops and sells SL land to costumers. I'm fairly sure her business is going just fine - especially with how fast SL is expanding - and so I wouldn't understand why she would abandon all that.

Fast expand of SL doesn't mean that everyone in this game is getting richer. It means that Linden Labs has high income so they can further develop their software. This can be caused by both: big deposits and big amount of players. So, in the end it means that Anshe business MAY get better. What is more, it means that there may be opened new banks which will be competition to Anshe's business. When we have free market (like in SL or EU), everything is possible. There is still risk involved.

I still believe that at this stage SL business is more important to her (probably more valuable, but it is just my guess) and she is more likely to leave EU than SL in case of difficulties.

And about banks in general, I recall that there was link to article about companies/ppl who bought banks and there were no further news. At least this is what I know.

Duke Freedom Wrote:Seriously, when are you going to do at least a little background reading when you post ridiculous comparisons like this?

I did plenty of background reading and everything I have read shows me som very uncanny similarities to ABE.

Duke Freedom Wrote:If I have to quote Anshe Chung loosely from what I once read her say, I believe she said something along the lines: "I don't thrust Ginko Financial for a dime and always withdraw any payments people make to me using Ginko Financial as soon as possible".

I am happy for her at least she is doing something right for her cutomers. Although I do admit people seem to be somewhat happier with the new exchange that was released

Duke Freedom Wrote:My personal opinion remains that Ginko Financial was nothing more than a Ponzi Scheme. Promising interests of 0.15% a day / 72% a year, I don't think it could be anything else, especially since it occasionally claimed to be making part of these profits by investing in RL and usually rejected to comment on how it is able to earn these interest rates. The way Ginko Financial was offered an easy out right now, is just plain ridiculous IMO. The guy running Ginko Financial is probably walking out with a few $100.000's in his pockets if you ask me.

I don't argue one bit that it seems like a Ponzi scheme. I will say one thing though, you shouldn't tell people to do background reading then spout incorrect numbers out like .15%/day and 72%/year. If you had actually done your reading you would have seen it was .10%/day and 44%/year . This may sound liek sematics but when it comes to me arguing that the information I give is fact, this makes a big difference.

Duke Freedom Wrote:Nevertheless, I don't see the similiarity between a SL bank that offers 72% yearly interest and which fails to pay out money once people start withdrawing (since it is very likely that it was a Ponzi Scheme), versus a EU bank that makes no promises on its profits whatsoever and certainly does not pay out unbelievable interest rates without explaining how it is supposed to be so profitable at all.

ROFL you must have been very absent through most of ABE's operation, I agree ACS has not claimed major profit or interest payments. What i would like ot remind you though is that they ABSOLUTELY offer investments with no explanation of how it is going to earn money, without explanation of the nearly 50% fees that have been charged on exchange transactions, and again no explanation of any operating procedure and no example of a business model of any type let alone a workable one. An indirect similarity was the RANDOM valuation of the company to release randomly and imho fraudulently valued shares.

Duke Freedom Wrote:There is no "circumstancial proof" in that article at all and your post only provides factual evidence that you seem to be able to quote about anything ending up with the conclusion that Anshe Chung is evil, even when the quoted part isn't related to Anshe Chung in any way, shape or form. :roll:

LOL this is not meant to be offensive but if you can not see the similarities between Ginko and ABE you must be biased. In terms of operation, there are few similarities. In terms of general business concept and ethics as well as operationa practices and base in reality they are almost identical.

Ginko promised 44% APY which is vaporware and apparently can not be supported.

Anshe offers shares of a company with a vaporware valuation that cannot be supported at this time.

Ginko bank was/is operating in a market that they apparently do not understand or they would have been prepared for SL gambling prohibition that has been handed down.

ABE is operating in a market that they do not understand which is apparent in the fact that she is trying to make a bidirectional indexed currency exchange out of a pawnshop.


I may have asked this before but are you by chance an ABE investor? I just have a hard time understanding why the dispute continues over things that are factual once again such as the following:

1) ABE was randomly valued in order to push an IPO that was premature.

2) ABE has produced NO documentation whatsoever about operational procedures.

3) ABE has produced no disclsoure of fees.

4) ABE has produced no information on what personnel are performing what functions, (i.e. management, exchange operation, etc.).

5) A significant portion of ABE's investors are now complaining of lack of communication.

6) At least one of ABE's investors was told in so many words to shut up when they asked where their money went and was told they are not entitled to know. (There should be a GIGANTIC red flag waving when an investor is told by the the companyt hey invested in that they are not entitled to an answer).

7) I have said this once and I will say it again, there has been no presentation of any type of "legal" documentation to show this company is regulated by any type of agency in any locality. I know you keep saying this is virtual and there is no regulation but honestly this is complete bullshit. I am currently in the process of building a REAL and LEGAL investment fund for EU and it will certainly be regulated as the management firm will be incorporated (legally regulated). This will protect my investors from misappropriation by the fact that I will have to provide annual corporate audits and accounting reports. This is not even remotely referred to by ACS and honestly I can't understand why nobody is asking for this information.


8) ABE continues to refuse to rebut any comments and now has a moderator on EF who closes any thread that expresses any concern about the viability of ABE no matter who the poster is (not just me). Then said representative not only attacks the character of the poster in the deletion message but also attacks the credibility of an entire public forum when SHE is the one censoring free speech. How exactly does someone get to comment on credibility during the censorship process when censorship in and of itself destroys credibility?
Anyway, my point here is not to argue about ABE with you. We have already seen we don't see eye to eye on this and thats okay. Opposing opinions are what promote knowledge and free thinking and we are certainly glad to have it here. I am really curious though are you an ABE investor? Not only am I curious but if you are I would like to ask you a few questions. Nothing argumentative just want to verify a few things I have been told by others.

I am not saying there is concrete proof that she has the intent to scam people with this venture. I do say that this is poorly thought out (which we agree on), poorly communicated (which we agree on), poorly disclosed (which we agree on), and those things right there in the investment world raise a red flag with the word SCAM on it. The other thing is, there is absolutely concrete proof, that the way she IPO'd her company is ILLEGAL in the United States. Hands down there is no arguing that fact. She would not be legally allowed to run a currency/securities exchange virtual or not in this country without satisfying the requirements I have mentioned.

I just keep going back to the fact that I am planning a fund myslef. Not to invest in a bank to invest in tangible assets (at least virtually tangible) where strict accounting will bekept, full disclosure will be made, real valuation will happen, and legal oversight will be present. Not to mention honest to god stock certificates from a REAL venture that is legally accountable for its actions and not just some made up fly by night money oppurtunity that I am getting into because SL is going down the tubes. But I digress, anyway I would love to ask yout hose questions given the chance. Not to argue as I said just to verify some information about how ABE is operating.

Honestly I do not want any of my friends, or colleagues to get hurt in this investing thing. The major point to my comments and research are to make sure people are AWARE of what they are getting into and I sincerely believe that at least a large portion of the initial investors were premature in investing and are now regretting it (this comes from comments I have gotten from a number of investors I know).

Don't get me wrong there are people who think it is a great thing. There are also other people who say "If I lose I lose". It is my SPECULATION though that there are a good amount of unhappy people. If that was not the case I would think the share price would have held its value and not dropped because people want out.

Would it really be too much for a rep from ACS to address some of these concerns. If they really want to shut me and others up wouldn't it make sense for them to porovide the things their customers and prospective customers ask of them or at least answer some questions? I am more than capable of asking non condascending questions in a professional and unbiased manner and would be more than happy to help her clear this up to be honest but it seems to me they are not interested in clearing the air to me or their investors. I was considering in investing in it and this is how I cam across the fact that all these very important informational pieces were missing entirely from the process.

Kaiser Wrote:I am happy for her at least she is doing something right for her cutomers. Although I do admit people seem to be somewhat happier with the new exchange that was released

Yeah. What a bit of confidence, based on a new look of the stock exchange, can do... A rise from 0.80 PED to 1.20 PED. People are insane, just don't ask me why.

Kaiser Wrote:I don't argue one bit that it seems like a Ponzi scheme. I will say one thing though, you shouldn't tell people to do background reading then spout incorrect numbers out like .15%/day and 72%/year. If you had actually done your reading you would have seen it was .10%/day and 44%/year . This may sound liek sematics but when it comes to me arguing that the information I give is fact, this makes a big difference.

It was 0.1% / day at the end right before it went bankrupt, which is all you have apparently seen. I have been following Ginko Financial for a little longer then that and I can tell you that the interest rate has been up to even 0.2% / day in the past. For simplicity I took the average of that.

Anyway, rest assured that I do my homework.

Kaiser Wrote:Ginko promised 44% APY which is vaporware and apparently can not be supported.

All SL banks (which are quite a few, these days) offer such rates. Not that I want to say anything with that, but just so you get an idea about SL 'economics' (or the lack of it if you want). To be honest I'm quite surprised Ginko Financial didn't pull any other banks with it - I actually expected some of the others to purely rely on Ginko Financial to finance these (ridiculously) high interest rates, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Kaiser Wrote:1) ABE was randomly valued in order to push an IPO that was premature.

ABE had assets worth 1.6mil PED and was valued at double that (3.2mil PED). 320K PED then needs to be added, which was raised with the IPO, making the total assets worth 1.92mil PED on 3.2mil shares, or equivalent to 0.60 Net Asset Value Per Share. Random is a big word, though I'm certainly not going to justify the reason for overpricing ABE by 1.28mil PED. Don't ask me.

Kaiser Wrote:3) ABE has produced no disclsoure of fees.

What fees? Either way, all fees can be calculated as I've done in another post already and I don't find that there is anything shocking to be found in the fees from PED to L$ and L$ to PED.

Kaiser Wrote:6) At least one of ABE's investors was told in so many words to shut up when they asked where their money went and was told they are not entitled to know.

Can you link me to that?

Kaiser Wrote:7) ...I am currently in the process of building a REAL and LEGAL investment fund for EU and it will certainly be regulated as the management firm will be incorporated (legally regulated). This will protect my investors from misappropriation by the fact that I will have to provide annual corporate audits and accounting reports.

I'm not going to argue this point anymore. However, I just want to note that "annual" is, in my opinion, nearly worthless in the environments SL and EU where things can change from month to month, but I'm sure you also plan to bring out monthly reports.

I more or less agree on points 2), 4), 5), 8).

Kaiser Wrote:The other thing is, there is absolutely concrete proof, that the way she IPO'd her company is ILLEGAL in the United States.

Except that the word ILLEGAL has no meaning if there is no REAL money involved, which there is not. PED and L$ have no REAL and RECOGNIZED value. I hope you think of that in your own ventures1 - although it is noble, you don't need to cut your own pockets either.

Kaiser Wrote:It is my SPECULATION though that there are a good amount of unhappy people. If that was not the case I would think the share price would have held its value and not dropped because people want out.

The people who sold for 0.80 PED were probably looking for a quick buck profit, which they didn't get. I assume that they were quickly impatient or worried that ABE would be a scam and thus sold at a loss. I can't say I was happy when I saw my shares go to 0.80 PED, but hey, you don't hear me complain now they have risen to 1.20 PED either.

Kaiser Wrote:I may have asked this before but are you by chance an ABE investor?

I already mentioned that I invested in it in the first post I made about it here, since I knew it would come up sometime anyway. Since you are probably also curious to know how much, I guess I can say I invested a total of 4500 PED into it - yes, quite a dime. Even feel free to call it irresponsible if you want. However, I do want to request you to consider my opinion completely unrelated to my investment, because discrediting it on that means the end of the discussion on here to me.

To me it is all investment of profit by the way, earned by investing 5500 PED in a few items a couple of years ago in EU and also by trading items a bit with that money.

Kaiser Wrote:Not only am I curious but if you are I would like to ask you a few questions. Nothing argumentative just want to verify a few things I have been told by others.

Ask away.

Kaiser Wrote:I was considering in investing in it and this is how I cam across the fact that all these very important informational pieces were missing entirely from the process.

Now that's interesting.

Kaiser Wrote:I am not saying there is concrete proof that she has the intent to scam people with this venture. I do say that this is poorly thought out (which we agree on), poorly communicated (which we agree on), poorly disclosed (which we agree on), and those things right there in the investment world raise a red flag with the word SCAM on it.

Hello,

I couldn't help offering an opinion about something I know very little about. However in this case my lack of knowledge may be a benefit.

Kaiser has listed a series of points that you both do indeed seems to agree with but then makes an assumption based on that (and I presume his personal life experience) that those points indicate a scam. My proposed option is that it is probably not a scam but rather just a poor business decision.

Think of it this way.
Anshe has established a reputation as a good business person who can make money in virtual environments (at least one of them). Most people know Anshe from media reports that often highlight how well he/she does and how much real money is made from the virtual world.

If Anshe wanted to expand she has two options
- get a bigger slice of the pie she is already in, or
- get more slices from different pies
add to that the perception that inovators and first movers usually get the lions share of the market, it is natural that Anshe would look into EU as an opportunity.

It seems to me that Anshe has made a small investment (by his/her standards) in order to get the jump on competitors and expand the business into EU. This seems like a good business move and, combined with the already established reputation, attracts "investors" who want to jump on the Anshe bandwagon and get real cash from the virtual worlds.

The problem seems to be the all the points regarding non-disclosure combined with the fact that EU is quite different than SL. And we don't know if Anshe, or delegates, are aware of that. Or, if they are just becomming aware of that.

What may be a small investment for Anshe to test the waters in EU could be disastrous for those that "invest" in the Anshe name if it turns out he/she is ignorant of the workings of EU.

I would not call this a scam. I would call this a failed business venture due to an ignorance of the market you are intending to work in. The absence of malice, while not saving the "investor", would remove the scam label.

So, we can't read Anshes mind to determine malace, he/she is not talking so we can't determine level of EU knowledge, Anshe and MA are both secretive so we don't know if any back room agreements have been made, we don't know what future VU's hold, we don't know how the banks will finally work. All we can do is make up our own minds based on our own experiences and act accordingly - hopeing it is for the best - as I think Anshe is doing.

BTW - I will not be putting money into Anshe's bank but I will put resources into Kaisers company (if they take such small ammounts as I can produce). Again, this is because of reputation and personal experience. I think Kaiser understands the workings of EU as well as any user can.

Grounder

I'm not sure Anshe doesn't know what she's doing in respect of her investment into EU, however, I'm not sure you have to.

There's so little interaction on the part of the investors for these deals, that unless you were completely detached from it, I don't think there's any way you can lose out.

MA basically set the business up, give you all the tools you need in return for your money. Everything up until now has been pretty much guaranteed a return. Treasure Island made it's money back quickly, as did CND. All the LAs I'm aware of up until now have too. They need continued investment to work, but as long as people play EU and need a bit more space to hunt, they'll use what MA has provided, no matter who it's run by.

It's not like creating and running a real business inside a game, which is, in effect what Anshe did in SL.

I have to admit though, there are a number of things in my personal experience which make me wonder about Anshe altogether. She seems to be washing her hands of SL, and doing it in the least customer-friendly way possible. Seems to have really annoyed a lot of people too.

I'm not sure you can really compare Ginko to this. Many speculate about the motives behind Ginko, and rightly so, but they never really promised to be anything more than they are. They're not insured, guaranteed, government approved.. Surely that should set alarm bells ringing for most?

And on top of that, they haven't gone bust, as somebody said earlier. They still intend to trade as long as possible!

Guess what I'm really saying is, if you're going to sink your money into something, be it MA's latest publicity stunt, a high-interest non-licenced bank account, or even a licenced one, you should be aware of all the facts and risk before you do so, otherwise you deserve to lose money.

I'm pretty sure Anshe weighed up the EU thing long before she decided to sink a bunch of money in. I believe she will succeed as long as people support her.

Check out her credentials and background, and see what other people say, then decide whether you want to use her services

Personally, knowing what I know, I'd advise against it.

Welcome aboard Nogg, I am glad to see you and your usual calm level headed wisdom never ceases to amaze me. You are much better at saying what I mean than I am .

my thoughts are Anshe will make a bucketload of cash and her original "investors" will make money by selling their shares at a higher price. It will then hit a point where the shares top out and level off where by the current shareholders will then make pennies through whatever "dividends" Anshe "decides" to pay (if any).

Heh, I figure you guys would love to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Generation

LOL I had completely forgotten about SG. Honestly, I felt like I was reading about ABE.