I have been looking throught he auctions and pe-wiki.info and I personally refuse to hunt with anything less than a 3.95 dmg/pec efficiency, as this is a decent value, and then I saw all these new weapons like the hl and h series of handguns... In you opinion do you guys think they will drop in price any time soon?

Honestly, everything from what I have seen sells for much more when it is new. Take a look at the h400. It was 200% for a long time but prices have come down and made it much more efficient to use. Now the thing to remember is that the economy numbers on wiki do not take into account the 10/10 on HA and CA which significantly increases the economy. So a SIB weapon with an econ of say 3.2 even would out perform a non SIB weapon with an econ of 5 maybe even 6. See, with SIB weapons you also have to take into account the significantly reduced kill time. This means less armor decay and less FAP decay. An h400 with a106 in 75%+ of cases will kill faster than a Maddox IV with a Beast amp. This is of course effected by skill as well.

I can attest to there being significant savings in FAP and Armor decay due to kill speed. For instance, I have been hunting at the Thorifoid temple with an Imp 2870 (I know its not SIB) lately. Usually I use an h400 (SIB obviously). The dmg/sec on the Imp 2870 with a106 is so high that it will kill a thorifoid much faster than an h400 will even with the significantly increased missed shot count. I have noticed with this gigantic dmg/sec weapon my FAP decay is reduced by 31.6% and my armor decay is reduced by over 50%!!!!. This is an amazing savings. I now have less decay on 300 PED ammo than I used to on 125 PED ammo. This is a savings of 30 PED or more in armor decay alone on a single hunt. I also find myself clicking a fap 5 between mobs to heal instead of fap waring with a 2600 during a kill. Without the Imp 2870 I would have to fap 3 times during kill then fap back to full between with a FAP 5. This would cost 27 PEC during kill and 14 PEC between for an extra 41 PEC per mob. Now I use only fap 5 between and it costs me 10 PEC is all (I have about 40 hp left after a kill now). This saves me 31 PEC per mob. Now it costs me about 5 ped of ammo to kill the avg large thorifoid. This means that with 300 PED ammo I can kill roughly 60 of them in a single hunt. 60 * .31 = 18.6 PED. There is 18.6 PED + 30 PED = 48.6 PED savings per hunt. This pays a LOT of markup.

My advice is do not rely on the wiki numbers to determine what to hunt with. Run your own numbers. Buy a low tt one and compare the stats from your own usage and see which total hunt cost is cheaper (including markup) on the same maturity and mob using the same hunting style. You will be surprised to find that even though wiki tells you that a weapon has worse econ that it actually has better "over all" econ than a weapon that wiki says is better. This even works between SIB weapons. Higher markup causing lower econ may not be true when looked at in a practical sense.

If you use the wiki be sure to use the personal stats.
Note that 3.95 dam/pec is a dream. This only occurs if you were always to do max damage.
But even if you maxed a weapon you'll do 50-100% of the max damage, so in reality around 3 dam/pec is feasible.
As far as I know the wiki takes SIB into account but not HA/CHA.

Wrt SIB:
If you maxed the weapon (and I guess Kaiser has maxed it for the H400), the SIB is not going to make a difference.

Factors that should influence your choice of weapon (+amp) are:
- effective dam/pec (after applying markup)
- reload time

Hello,

Just one minor clarification to Dutchies post.

The issue/benefit with SIB weapons id two fold - the skill increase and the increase HA

So, while Kaiser will not get the skill increase benefit once maxed he will still have the 10/10 HA/CHA that beats the HA/CHA he would have on a non-SIB weapon. It is this increased hit/critical rate that increases the effective efficiency of the SIB weapons.

I speak as a (L) convert.

Grounder

Some additional info on wiki: there are options called "Skill based" and "Include markup". When you check these, you will see your effciency at your personal skill level and at current markup using PEAuction prices. You can click on help to see how to make this work. You can also select the option "Custom values". It makes it possible to enter a custom skill level and a custom markup value.

The option "Skill based" will take both your damaga and you hitability in considderation. For the exact calculations you can take a look in the discussion tab. There is also a "Skill based" option for the fapchart.

But keep in mind in some cases non SIB weapons can be more efficient like if the dmg/sec is so high it massively decreases kill time which saves fapping and armor decay.

I was referring to about a 3.95 with SIB weapons. I don't use non-SIB weapons as of now because I don't have enough skills to use them.

I use a Korss H400(L) maxed out with 104 amp. it gives 2,83 effective dmg /pec and 33 dmg/sec effective when maxed out. And that includes the 150% markup. unbeatleble dmg/sec and eco for a normal price. No ubergun without SIB is alternative with my HA of 2.9 on it.

Waldemar

Waldemar Wrote:I use a Korss H400(L) maxed out with 104 amp. it gives 2,83 effective dmg /pec and 33 dmg/sec effective when maxed out. And that includes the 150% markup. unbeatleble dmg/sec and eco for a normal price. No ubergun without SIB is alternative with my HA of 2.9 on it.

Waldemar

Yeah you start to approach a cross over to efficient around 4.5 HA or so you truly become efficient at about 5.0 HA

I have just been surprised playing with wiki.
Non-(L) weapons only really become comparable with (L) weapons at about Hit Level 70 Damage Level 70!

plandon Wrote:I have just been surprised playing with wiki.
Non-(L) weapons only really become comparable with (L) weapons at about Hit Level 70 Damage Level 70!

This is solely skill based though. See you have to take into account kill time. If I can kill twice as fast with say an Imp 2870 than with an H400 then that number drastically changes. I proved this last week. I am a heavy H400 user.

Last week I had the use of a LOT of uber equipment for an entire week. I hunt so much with H400 I have stats memorized as to how much armor decay I pay per how much ammo on any mob I regularly hunt with an H400.

This week I used an Imp 2870 on all the same mobs. I paid VERY close attention to my miss rate and dmg with that weapon compared to the H400. I also paid very close attention to FAP and Armor decay.

The Imp 2870 withskill figured in is about twice as much dmg/sec as H400 is for me. If you look at my skill based econ with Imp 2870 vs. H400 I should have lost shitloads of money (Econ for me was rotten on the big gun), BUT I saved over 50% per hunt on armor decay and over 35% per hunt on fapping because suddenly I had no need to fap while shooting. That saves ammo, gun, and amp decay in mob regen costs, lost fap clicks, and armor decay.

I think you would be amazed at how much this can add up to. On a Thorifoid temple hunt for me of 300 PED ammo and an entire A106 it saved me roughly 65-75 ped per hunt. That is roughly 20% of my total cost of hunt. This makes a big case for high dmg/sec non (L) weapons.

I need to reiterate though, this is H400 against a 70,000 PED pistol with an extreme dmg/sec rating.

In 100% of cases where non uber dmg/sec weapons are compared to SIB weapons the SIB weapon will win out trust me.

kill time affects things in two ways:
- faster time -> less time for mob to regenerate -> potential ammo saving
- less chance that the mob hits you -> less decay and less fapping (and less chance to die)

The higher the mob HP, the more this becomes important. E.g. I used to hunt low maturity foul's a lot and I think the difference between the various weapons does not make too much of a difference. But if you go for medium level mobs it definitely makes a difference. On a feff guardian the difference between a H380 (44 uses/min) and a H400 (55 or so) could make the difference between dying and winning for me.

I have tested regeneration of mobs, and from my tests it was very conclusive that regenerated mobs give more loot. It seems not the HP of the mob decides the loot, but the damage inflicted does, with exception of overkill in the last shot. I am not sure it still works like that, it was quiet some VU's back I tested that.

It is ofcourse true fast killing saves you armor and fap decay. It depends a lot on your defensive skills, your HP, your armor, and fap how much your defensive decay bill will be. The trick is to find the sweat spot, where you maximize your efficiency of both weapon and armor/fap combined.

Yes, true,

en for me the swat spot is a fef raider or bristlehog old with the maxed out H400. level 29 laser sniper with 1600 evade and ghost armor, i need no fap on it and long term result is almost 100% back, actually 94%