so one of my soc mates hits a 5k HOF today. he tells me hes going to use it to buy a bear set. now knowing a little about armor i say why not get neme for 1k less and only lose the 14 cold and 3.5 normal protection?


anyway we went back and forth and really got no where so i bring to you the debate.


nemesis:

15.8 15 15 15 7.5 0 15 0 0 0 45 22.5 67.5 214.1 3000 Looted 1351.0

bear:

19.8 15 15 17 9 0 15 14 3 0 47 24 88 460.0 2950 Looted 2339.8

okay so those stats are hard to read but basicly its 2 inpact 1.5pen and 14 cold are the upgrades you get with bear. neme has 50 duribility more weight of 4 less and depending on outlook half the TT value. bear has an auction price of 2339.8ped neme is 1351.0ped so is the differences worth the extra ped? how and why?

Its more for show than anything else plus imo bear looks cooler and you dont see it around often, if i were him though id probly save it for something better

You also have to look at the durabilities. I think bear decays a lot more per protection than nemesis does, which is why its a lot more common for people to wear it, not just because of the price point. Nemesis is one of the standards for plating, and its that way for a reason.

i thought that decay was based on protection and TT value making either better or worse i dont know much about decay but is that the big reason?

yes neme is orange (a nice color) and bear is a bit sexier but 1k?

imo it definitely sexier than nemesis (i cant stand the orange rekon it looks like crap) and im also with eron on this (sorry hottygirl) i though the decay was based the amout of protection offered by the armor for a specific dammage type.

Eg if a creature did 20 impact dammage and your armor had 25 impact protection then it would take 20 dammage worth of decay and you owuld take 5 dammage to your HP. But if the creature did say 20 cold dammage and you only had 20 impact protection then your armor would take 0 decay and you would take 20 dammage to your HP.

I dont think that any armor really decays at a more expensive rate than other armor, it just seems that way becuase it is absorbing more dammage than the otehr armor and thus accumulating more decay.

I've seen mixed opinions on decay and cost. Definitely it seems to be armor dependent, but it is not sure if it is the same for every armor and if it is proportional to the dam absorbed (e.g. if 1 dam gives you 0.1 pec decay does 20 dam give you 2 pec decay? ).

Wrt the original poster:
I would also look at the option to buy a lower armor and a few sets of plates. That way you can adapt to the situation.

dutchie Wrote:I would also look at the option to buy a lower armor and a few sets of plates. That way you can adapt to the situation.

oh yeah plates are totally the way to go...if i do anything to my neme it would be plate it. right now i have 2b plates very nice little addition adds a little close protection and a little fire protection, allows for my varying hunting choices

edit:

for a slightly more eco hunt i put the 2bs on my gnome for inpact only hunts makes the gmone almost as good as the neme with less decay.

What I was referring to is say both armors provide 20 protection of a given type, and armor a decays .1 pec per damage, while armor b decays .3 pec per damage. I know this is a fact because if you look at ghost compared to other armors, ghost decays terribly more than a regular looted armor.

Yeah hotty i think that some do decay at a slightly faster rate per dammage absorbed ... im still trying to figure out how exactly that is tho, im workin on if its related to the item durability or something else. We may have to create a decay rating index for each set of armor pain in the ass

Also what dutchie said

"(e.g. if 1 dam gives you 0.1 pec decay does 20 dam give you 2 pec decay? ). "

is right on the money and the point i was tryin to make earlier ... but failed horibly

I don't think its an exponential relationship I just think that armor abosorbs more from bigger mobs so people get that illusion. After all, try hunting atrox with ghost on or something. The decay is terrible!

hottygurl Wrote:I don't think its an exponential relationship I just think that armor abosorbs more from bigger mobs so people get that illusion. After all, try hunting atrox with ghost on or something. The decay is terrible!

very true i used to use shogun to hunt argo north of twin repair bill 5-10ped per 6-10ped ammo...neme is about the same and protects a little bit better.

ok Decay:

This has been checked pretty well and I believe it's the way that it all works... Add up all the protection that your armor protects from OTHER THAN acid. For arguments sake, lets say this is 50. Then you add up another armor type and it's 100. The 100 armor will have double the decay per hitpoint absorbed.

So for example, lets take ghost (http://peauction.com/itemlisting.php?id=1592). it has a total non-acid protection of 83.

We compare that to Rascal(http://peauction.com/itemlisting.php?id=1602). it has a total non-acid protection of 32.

So even though the impact protection(you use mostly this on most mobs) on rascal is only 4 less, you're paying only 30% as much decay than you would on ghost for larger impact-only mobs like ambus,bercs and 3/4 of all mobs in game... Best to get rascal and some 5a plates.

Holy shit thats sad that it works this way. That makes no sense at all. So basically, MA has decided to randomly choose the decay cost for armor.

Ok that makes more sence so the decay formula would be something like


( (Dammage absorbed x Total protection) / 100 )

Or something liek that though the 100 co-efficient is just a guess i suppose we could test it somehow if there were a way to know how much dammage that creature do eachtime before the reduction from armor is taken out ... ill look into it and see what i can do.

There has been a formula on pe-wiki similar to the one addz gave (with some constants). However, I understood from Witte that this was not correct.

Measuring this is not as trivial as addz suggests. If you have an armor and are hit you always get 1 dam. Then the rest is absorbed by your armor and plates as much as possible. Then what remains you get.

As mobs have a perfect dam range they always hit between 0.5 and 1.0 their max (as can be found in pe-wiki).
So if your mob does 14 impact damage and your armor protects 10 impact damage, mob hits will be between 7 and 14.
However if the mob hits between 7 and 11 you will always get 1 dam, and you don't know how much dam was absorbed.
It could be 6, but it could equally well be 10. Different damage classes complicated things more. Of course statistics can help, as can big mobs as they will always cause max damage when they hit.

Btw you only need one hit to be able to measure the decay for a certain value. Although decay is in the sub-pec value per hp dam absorbed you can measure this using the TT. Just put your armor in the TT, then fill up with fruit and dung until the value wraps a pec. That is the .5 pec mark. As fruit is 0.01 pec per item if I recall correctly, this way you can find out if your armour is e.g. 999.87 pec instead of 1000 pec. (as you need to fill up with 63 fruit in the first place and 50 in the second).

Of course do a cancel in the TT to get your armor back!

One related remark:
If you only get damage 1.0 then you are overprotected and it makes sense to use a cheaper armor.
The ideal situation is that the mob does some damage to you but not enough to kill you (and probably not more than you can recover naturally before attacking the next mob. This minimised decay and cost (if you have to fap you also face decay, but then at least you get some skills out of it, but no fapping is of course the best).

BTW: I tend to think that the sweet spot of mobs are those that I can kill between 5 and 8 shots.
Less means I am spending percentagewise too much on overkill for the last shot (although I switch weapons if I think that is useful).
More means that the mob has more time to recover (so requiring additional ammo) and also that the mob has more time to damage you.
With rifle, if you can kill a mob with 5 shots it'll probably be dead before it reaches you so technically no armour would be needed. I'm carrying mine anyway, since sometimes the critters attack with 2 or 3 and also in hilly terrain it is not always possible to shoot at max distance (because the mob is after the next hill).
And of course the armor is needed in case you meet a bigger mob.

Dutchie